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tv   Martin Bashir  MSNBC  May 28, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT

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vindicated. here's hoping there are a few good men and women at the irs who are willing to come forward and tell the truth. okay. that does it for "the cycle." mart martin, it's all yours. good afternoon, thank you, s.e. it's tuesday may the 28th. from command eer in chief, to comforter of the nation. there is no surrender for this president. ♪ >> what's brightest in america. looking out for one another. that's why we always bounce back from these kinds of disasters. you're not alone in your grief.. as these difficult days have unfolded, you've also inspired us. they sought to intimidate us, shake us from those values who make us who we are as americans. well, they picked the wrong city to do it. we may not all live here in texas, but we're neighbors, too, and we stand with you. the oklahoma standard. this is a strong community with strong character. when you look out on this beautiful beach here, you can
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count on the fact that you won't be alone. the president is back today in a role that's become all too familiar. surveying an area ravaged by disaster, lending and ear and offering a comforting arm to those who have lost homes and loved ones. but today's visit to the jersey shore offers a hopeful twist. nearly seven months ago, it was a disaster of epic proportions. today, well, it's a story of remarkable recovery and imagine it, the success of a government-aided response and reconstruction effort. and as if that wasn't enough, it's also a story of bipartisan cooperation, highlighting the productive working relationship between the president and new jersey's republican governor chris christie. an odd couple bromance taken to a new level today when governor christie won the president a
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teddy bear in a game of touchdown fever on the boardwalk. but it was christie's devotion to his state and the people's resilience that the president praised in his remarks this afternoon. >> you know, when i was here seven months ago, hurricane sandy had just hammered communities all across the east coast, and lives were lost and homes and businesses were destroyed and folks were hu hurting. and i remember something chris said back then. he said, we cannot per mimit th sorrow to replace the resilience new jerseyans have. >> after touring tornado damage in moore, oklahoma, the president took his message beyond the jersey shore. >> part of the reason i wanted to come back here was not just to send a message to new jersey, but send a message to folks in oklahoma. when we make a commitment that we've got your back, we mean it. and we're not going to finish
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until the work is done because that's who we are. >> we've got your back. or, as some like to say, we've got your back if you're in our backyard. case in point, oklahoma's republican senator jim inhofe who opposed sandy aid, calling it a slush fund, but now finds himself singing, well, a rather different tune. >> our victims are desperately need your help right now. they need your money. >> yes. of course, they do. and that plea for aid will surely be answered by americans who exhibit much greater generosity toward disaster victims than does mr. inhofe, generally. anyway, senator inhofe is really addressing what is a distraction from the real issue, the one that his republican colleagues really want to talk about. >> i think the constellation of these three scandals ongoing takes away from the president's moral authority to lead the nation. nobody questions his legal authority, but i think he's really losing the moral
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authority to lead this nation and he really needs to put a stop to this. >> that's right. let's get back to questioning the president's moral authority to lead the nation and the other stuff, well, that can just wait. let's bring in our panel now. in washington, msnbc political analyst, professor michael eric dyson. and "washington post" columnist, dana, or sorry, dan a. milbank. here in new york, republican strategist, ron christie. if i might begin with you, professor, it would appear that republicans are more than happy to see this president comforting th the bareved, comforting those who lost their homes, but never governing. never doing any governing. is that right? >> absolutely right. the therapist in chief, comforter in chief, is a role in which every president worth his or her salt is called upon to do. think about ronald reagan consoling us, when he talked about after the disaster in the
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sky. now obama on the ground speaking about the hurricanes, the tornadoes, the consequences of the natural forces of the universe to which we are subject. and, yes, people applaud him there, but in terms of actually on the ground governing, getting resources to vulnerable populations in a time of crisis, which is what a politician at his best or her best is supposed to do, then there are all kinds of obstructions. as you said, we have oklahoma senators who were supporting -- who were against sandy, but who are now for aid to colorado. it seems that the republicans have this as a basic principle if it happens to me, my son is gay, i'm for gay marriage. if the disaster happens in my backyard, i'm for them. otherwise they are obstructionists who prevent the flourishing of communities beyond their bailiwick. >> ron, isn't that right? isn't there a terrible irony here that governor christie finds himself capable of working with this president, and to good effect, yet congressional republicans will do everything to oppose him? >> no. absolutely not. good afternoon, martin.
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i think this is a case of politics, unfortunately, being played with the disaster. the truth of the matter is that fema has $11.6 billion in its disaster fund right now. so it's not a question of republicans holding up funding. jay carney, the white house press secretary, has already said fema has sufficient resources to deal with this crisis. and if we need to come and revisit the issue later on down the road, we can do that. president obama should not be lauded here for all of his bipartisan work he's doing. he's showing up doing the job he should be doing. he is the consoler in chief as my friend, doc dyson just said. i think that's very important. i think it's also very important the governor was there for his citizens. i don't see this being some great big bipartisan kumbaya that they got anything accomplished. you don't see it. >> excellent. thank you for that, ron. dan a. milbank, the tea party is at it again with ted cruz leading a refusal to even bring a budget to conference to negotiate. instead, he wants to take us to the brink over the debt ceiling
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once again, even to the consternation of those in his own party, people like john mccain, of course. does this cruz have interest in governing contrary to what mr. christie just said? >> no, i think ted cruz is much more representative where the republican party is right now, and that's why no less a voice than bob dole is saying this, things should be shut down for repairs. i think what's going on in new jersey today is instructive. it is a subject of bipartisan cooperation. it is state and federal cooperation. and then so you have the right wing criticizing this boardwalk bromance. i suspect it will just be a matter of days until darrell issa asks for an investigation into why president obama missed the five tosses into the football hoop. >> that has already been called for, as i understand it. we have news from darrell issa -- >> does this president have the motor coordination necessary to be president? >> yeah. ron, does this president have the motor coordination to be president?
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>> i'm sure he does. >> it's interesting, isn't it, ron? because if i can quote the congressional historians, thomas mann, they say the republican party has become an insurgent outlier. ideologically extreme, unpersuaded by the conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science. that's right, snl isn't it? >> of course it's not. >> if it's not, ron, let me play you -- >> please. >> wait a minute, ron. i want to get your reaction. let me play you something that bob dole said at the weekend. take a listen to this. >> ought to fit a sign on the national committee doors that says closed for repairs. >> there's a gentleman, mr. christie, who was nothing less than a presidential candidate and said they ought to close some doors, get positive priorities and give it another go. will they listen? >> i think senator dole is 100% wrong here, martin. if you look at the fact of the matter is, there are 30 republican governors out of the 50 states. we've had nine additional
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governo governors become governors since president obama came into office. they are republican controlled legislatures. so to suggest that we have a majority in half the country in the congress and we have 30er governorships the republicans somehow don't know how to govern ore don't have principle, it's laughable. >> professor dyson, your reaction to that that ron is saying the president is being given far too much credit for this bromance and bipartisan working and that, frankly, he's a largely incompetent commander in chief. >> i'm just glad that brother christie is spouting some socialist swauhili here. kumbaya. if obama said that, we'd be gone in a minute. the reality is this. >> remember, professor dyson, it is a south african language. he's been accused of being a kenyan socialist. not a south africa. >> see, the fact you can make that distinction puts you a million percent ahead of where everybody else is on that right
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side of the aisle. here's the point. the $11 billion mr. christie referred to, look, that's a holdover because of the democrats who encourage this nation to have a fund to help those who were in need and furthermore, mr. coburn and inhofe want to make it a tit for tat and tax those receiving the benefits by saying we have to take something else out of the federal budget and replace it with this. of course, president obama deserves all the credit in the world because he's governing in an ungovernable situation. where people refuse to acknowledge that the other side has the legitimate viewpoint, that they don't want him to get any credit. thank god at least governor christie understands for the virtue and the benefit of his own constituents that he can work with the president where he agrees with him and disagree with him where he doesn't. that's what we call american politics at its best. that's the governing principle by which we should be regulated. unfortunately the republicans are so far to the right and outside of the bailiwick of the
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common interest of america that i don't think they have anything interesting to offer. >> final question to you, dana. dana, i've read you on repeatedly on ted cruz. here's a man who is opposed by his own party on a number of kind of critical issues. but he is totemic, now, isn't he, of a party that so obstructionist, it's extremely difficult to get anything done on capitol hill with a man like ted cruz on the other side of the aisle? >> well, that's certainly been my impression of watching him in these first few months so far. i think ron makes an interesting point about the success of republican governors, but i think what you've got to look at is how successful republican governor like christie is being ostracized by his party and the national party represented here in washington is fast becoming the party of ted cruz which is anti-government and anti-cooperation in every respect. people are afraid of ted cruz here in town. well, john mccain's not afraid of anybody. but clearly ted cruz is
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ascendant at this moment and that speaks rather frightening things for the party and dole is justifiably worried. >> indeed he is. >> since you invoked sigmund freud. they want to work with a man who has enough common sense to reach out to the other side of the aisle. >> professor michael eric dyson has completed the freudian. dana milbank. thank you so much. we have brightening images of a train derailment outside baltimore this afternoon. a csx train derailed causing a fire and the collapse of several nearby buildingses. no fatalities are being reported at this time, but of course we'll keep you up to date as this story develops. coming up, the senator in syria. is it a wise move? we'll take on that delicate story next. stay with us. to angie's list first.
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john mccain surprised everyone, family and friends included, with his short visit to syria on monday. mccain, a member of the committee on armed services, is in yemen today but on memorial day he spent several hours meeting with leaders in the rebel-controlled north of the country. a visit his daughter, meghan, tweeted she first learned about on twitter. one of which his colleague lindsey graham tweeted, "if he doesn't make it back, i'm calling dibs on his office." however, all jokes aside, senator mccain's visit comes at a moment when the civil war in syria is beginning to turn rather cold. russia, upset that the eu is about to let arms embargo lapse, is threatening to sell anti-aircraft missiles to bashar al assad's government. over the weekend, the head of the iranian-backed hezbollah
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committed his organization to an assad victory stating "this battle is ours, and i promise you victory." joining us now is richard haas, president of the council on foreign relations whose new book is entitled "foreign policy begins at home: the case for putting america's house in order." good afternoon, sir. it's a great pleasure to have you on our broadcast. >> thanks very much, martin. >> we will get to your book in a moment, but to begin, syria now appears to be a proxy war with russia and iran each taking on the west. how would you characterize it? and should we be anxious about next month's so-called peace conference? >> well, it's a civil war now wrapped in a proxy war as you say. it has both an internal dimension and conceivably a regional dimension as it spills over. so this is very much now, if you will, the central middle eastern conflict. i don't hold out a lot of hope for the peace conference. that's putting it mildly.
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i worry, actually, it can even go against us. i can imagine situations where the assad government would pose as the supporters of a diplomatic outcome, the opposition for good reason would reject it and they would put themselves on the defensive. so i'll be honest with you, i'm quite uneasy with this entire diplomatic process. >> wow. now, there are sound strategic and humanitarian reasons for the u.s. to support the efforts of syria's rebels, and if your book, i'm quoting you, you say this. "the american reputation for morality and leadership alike suffers when the u.s. government chooses to stand by rather than act amid images of atrocities." so what would you recommend, richard, for the american government in relation to syria? >> well, what i said is true, but that has to be weighed against what it would cost in terms of getting involved and what that involvement would actually produce. so these things are always involving tradeoffs. in the case of syria, i would be
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in favor of selective so-called lethal or military help to oppositionists, and the fact that senator mccain went in and met with some of them, i would hope this sort of interaction would give us a better idea of who we might be prepared to support under what conditions. but i still would not favor direct u.s. military involvement. i don't think it would be enough if there were a small amount, and i don't think our interests warrant a large amount in part because we've got other things to worry about in the region around the world, and at home. in part because i'm simply not confident that any level of u.s. military involvement could necessarily bring about a syria where all going to be comfortable with. >> and yet, richard, you say just then that you would support some kind of military hardware provision to the rebels, but you must accept that the rebels, themselves, are not entirely clear. we don't know who they are. we already know parts of the rebellion within syria is sponsored by groups that act on
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behalf of al qaeda. >> absolutely. we want to try to be as discriminating as we can be. you don't simply put them downtown in the market scaquare and say come get it. meet with certain groups. you can discriminate or distinguish among the syrian opposition. i'm not going to sit here and tell you there's no risk. there's risk some arms will get into the wrong hands. that's a lesson from every other conflict from afghanistan, to libya. you have to weigh the choices. there's no good choices at this point. i would simply say the selective arming of opposition forces is the least bad choice available to us at this time. >> okay. well let's listen to the president on, when he gave his national security speech last thursday. take a listen to this. >> dozens of highly skilled al qaeda commanders, trainers, bomb makers and operatives have been taken off the battlefield. plots have been disrupted that would have targeted international aviation, u.s.
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transit systems, european cities, and our troops in afghanistan. simply put, these strikes have saved lives. >> of course, he was there referencing drone strikes. i wonder what is your general position, richard, in relation to the drone strategy? >> i see it as one element of an overall counterterrorism strategy. it's one element, if you will, of the military element. you can use drones, you can use special forces. ideally we return to governments who would be in a position to control the territory. and we would arm them and advise them. we've also got to fight the problem at both ends. that means trying to prevent radicalization in the first place. but also means we've got to protect ourselves, defend ourselves at home. build a more robust, resilient society. there's no solution to the terrorism problem, martin, in the sense we can eradicate it. what we have to do is reduce it to manageable proportions to get on with the rest of our lives. >> richard haass.
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thank you. congratulations on the book. it's a fascinating read. thank you for joining us. >> thanksing for having me. coming up. america's aging infrastructure. just one more reason for why austerity bites. i have low testosterone. there, i said it. see, i knew testosterone could affect sex drive, but not energy or even my mood. that's when i talked with my doctor. he gave me some blood tests... showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% testosterone gel. the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer,
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cutbacks in education for children of serving members of the military and a republican speaker apparently set on leading from behind. what do these things have in common? in a word, sequestration. because on the day we learned that children of military families stationed in ft. bragg in north carolina, the nation's largest domestic base, will be attending school for five fewer days due to teacher furloughs, "politico" also reports on the shrinking power of the man in a position to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen. speaker john boehner. together it would seem mr.
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boehner needs to take his own advice where the nation's military is concerned. >> instead of using our military men and women as campaign props, if the president was serious, he'd sit down with harry reid and begin to address our problems. >> joinings now, democratic congressman chris van hollen of maryland. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon, martin. >> the republican position seems to be we love and cherish our military so much we want their children to be less well educated. is that about it? >> well, that's unfortunately the case right now because we've been pushing to replace the sequester which is having all these negative consequences and our republican colleagues have refused to even allow us to have a vote, martin. four times now. actually five times. we tried to have a vote on a -- >> every single week you come on to our broadcast, we talk about transportation for disabled people, canceled. >> right. >> we talk about meals on wheels for the elderly. canceled.
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we talk about all kinds of infrastructure problems. bridges collapsing. today we talk about education. what's next? >> well, that's exactly right. maybe this will finally get people's attention. this, of course, is the home of the 82nd airborne historic fighting force. and those five days that kids are going to be out of school is just between now and october. in fact, it's when the school year starts in late august and in october. if the sequester remains in place which is what republican colleagues are calling for, you're going to see a lot more days when the children of our servicemen and women are out of school. i mean, this is outrageous. you're going to see starting in the fall cutbacks in funds for all school jurisdictions, or around the country, martin. and, yet, you still have our republican colleagues unfortunately twiddling their thumbs. we should be right now, the budget committee from the house and the senate, should be meeting to iron out differences right now instead of people back home. senator murray who's the chairman of the senate budget committee, myself, we've been
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ready for the last 45 days to try and iron out these differences, replace the sequester so you don't have kids of military servicemen and women thrown out of having five days off school. and it's -- our republican colleagues have refused to even name people to participate in the negotiation. >> it's absolutely staggering. but i have an insight, sir. i'd like you to listen. i'm going to read an exchange between "politico" reporters and mr. boehner in the article that i referred to. it's about why he and the president have not spoken this year. so they ask "have you called president obama?" "no," he replies. they ask, "why not? you've never called the president and said, let's talk about immigration so when it hits the floor --" he answers "i'm busy trying to organize my own guys." i have no doubt that louie gohmert is a difficult cat to herd, but is that the
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difficulty? >> you'd hope he'd be leading the country in terms of meeting with the president. the president took the initiative last year and again this year to try and meet with our republican colleagues. speaker boehner last december announced that he would not meet with the president of the united states one-on-one anymore to work on these negotiations. why was that? because he recognized that if he negotiated an agreement with the president, that he, the speaker of the house, wouldn't be able to get his own members onboard, his tea party members. so his conclusion was that he's just not going to speak to the president of the united states, and the president has continued to reach out to the speaker, as he has to republicans in the senate. but they just refused to want to come together to try and iron out these important differences so that these kids of servicemen and women won't have to miss five days of school. >> i guess it proves who's the juvenile here. but the bridge collapse in washington state which happened, as you know, last week, is attributed to one truck driver's crash, but it's also brought
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into light the subject of infrastructure spending. let me read to you a few of the findings of the american society of civil engineers just on washington state. almost $10 billion over the next 2 decades is needed for drinking water infrastructure. 366 bridges are structurally deficient. that's the worst category than the bridge that just collapsed. and 2/3 of roads are in poor or mediocre condition. >> look, martin -- >> what -- what is speaker boehner doing when states are crumbling? they are crumbling, sir. >> well, that's exactly the right question to ask. that same organization, the american society for civil engineers, gave our national infrastructure the grade of a d-plus, "d" as in dog. what we proposed, includes the president's budget, is to have a major increase in our national investment infrastructure. as you well know, this used to be a bipartisan idea. after all, president eisenhower
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was the president that helped build out the interstate highway system. we've got very low interest rates. we have about 13% unemployment in the construction industry. it is a no-brainer to launch a major infrastructure investment program. that's why it's included in the president's budget. it's why it's included in the democratic budgets in congress. but, again, our colleagues have refused to support those infrastructure investments. and this can only be, in my view, a pure partisan play because this used to be something that brought us together, to repair and renovate and improve our infrastructure so we can be competitive and you've got public safety, but you've also got competitiveness. >> not anymore. as you know, sequestration removes something like $2 billion in money that would have been allocated to infrastructure projects already. >> that's right. >> congressman valn hollen, thak you. >> thank you, martin. next, remember the newer,
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start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. from rand missiles to cruz missiles, and no stupid comments. here are today's top lines. you've just crossed over into the twilight zone. >> for millenia, the human existence was nasty, broodish, and short. oddly enough, the same description some of my senate colleagues have applied to me. >> in the president actually knew something, well then clearly he's not being truthful. >> nobody questions his legal authority, but i think he's really losing the moral authority to lead this nation. >> if he didn't know anything, then i think it suggests the level of aloofness or, perhaps, even incompetence that i think is pretty this disturbs.
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>> why aren't you impeaching the president? he's been making unconstitutional actions since he came into office. >> as president reagan on served, how can we love our country and not love our countrymen? >> could you make it in today's republican party? >> i doubt it. i doubt reagan couldn't have made it. certainly nixon couldn't have made it, because he had ideas. >> i would caution my tea party friends about resting on kind of a victim status mentality. >> what do you think of your party, of the republicans today? >> they ought to put a sign on the national committee doors that says closed for repairs. >> you have to have great candidates. can't have people making stupid comments about, you know, women and abortion. >> coming back stronger and bigger as a national party. >> i'm used to speaking when no one's listening. >> we've got big-time work to do. >> let's get right to our panel. political reporter for the "washington post" is niamalika henderson. she joins us along with msnbc political analyst and soon to be msnbc host, karen finney.
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karen, i don't know why you laugh. it's not that funny. senator rand paul is once again taking issue with the ft.'s use of drones, as you know, karen, saying even those who commit treason against the united states should be tried in a court of law. >> right. >> so do you think his moderate stance on these national security issues may come back to haunt him when, as we think he may, consider a nomination in 2016? >> i do because remember, martin, this is also the man who said after spending 13 hours filibustering and talking about our rights, then went on to say that he was okay with the use of drones, if you robbed a liquor store. so i'm not sure how that's squared with this idea. you know, then on television he goes back to this very, you know, important sounding, the rule of law and all that. i think he's going to have to explain, so it's okay to use a drone if you've robbed a liquor store, but it's not okay for the president of the united states who has access to far more
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intelligence than any of us to make some of these critical decisions if new regulations are put in place? i just think he'll have to explain that. that's all. >> he will. maybe he needs to be more consistent with his medication. nia malika, ted cruz is another contender for the gop nomination in 2016. are he and rand paul the best the right can do? or perhaps is bob dole correct web when he says the republican party should close up shop for one year and do nothing. >> bob dole is right. you see folks at the rnc and republicans talk about moderating their tone. rand paul and ted cruz are doing something else, courting the far right of the base and courting the kind of folks that show up in primary campaigns. we'll see them, of course, in 2016. i do think rand paul is on to something with his critique of the president. it is, as karen pointed out, he has seemed to flip-flop, but folks in the tea party and some people on the left as well do have a legitimate criticism about this president's use of
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drones and what it means for future presidents as well. but, again, i think you have in ted cruz and rand paul, they are competing for that far right, and rubio's got to figure out who he's going to be vis-a-vis these two gentlemen who have the market cornered i think on the tea party. >> it is. there's a real fight for the lunatic fringe there. we saw laura ingraham in one of these clips saying it's important candidates don't make stupid comments about women and abortion. it seems congressman louie gohmert, he was not listening. here he is responding to the testimony of a woman who described making the incredibly painful, difficult decision to terminate her pregnancy at 21 weeks when tests proved that her fetus' brain was not functioning. take a listen. >> having my great sympathy and empathy both, i still come back wondering, shouldn't we wait? it just seems like it's a more
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educated decision if the child is in front of you to make those decisions. >> karen, what is your response to that knowing that it was a unanimous medical decision by several physicians and on s obstetricians who observed this woman's condition? >> i serve on the board of naral pro-choice america. i have to tell you, the gall, who the hell does that man think he is sitting there in a chamber of the congress to tell this woman what her decision should have been? that is the ultimate hypocrisy of the republican party. if that isn't getting all up in your business, i don't know what is. as you say, it was a unanimous medical decision. he has no way of knowing what that woman went through. i've had friends who had to go through that. it is heartbreaking. it is the most difficult discussion that a woman will have with her doctor and family and a terribly hard decision. the way these guys demagogue, remember, that hearing was all
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male, sitting there telling this woman what she should or shouldn't have done. >> it was astonishing. >> disgusting. >> it was astonishing. nia malika, is this what reince priebus meant when he said we should make a positive appeal to women? >> i don't think that's what he meant. the odd use of the word, we, shouldn't we wait? as if he should be in on these decisions with this woman who was making a very difficult choice with her partner, her husband, whoever she's making that with, with her doctors, with her god. and this idea that he should be there making that decision, you see in virginia they're making this case, democrats are, against cuccinelli with an ad that shows ken cuccinelli popping up in women's doctor's offices as if politicians should be in on those decisions. i don't think he is doing the republican party any favors with this sort of language. >> very quickly, karen. >> remember this legislation also, they don't even care if the life of the mother is at stake. >> of course.
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>> that's what they're talking about. >> that's completely relevant. nia malika henderson, karen finney. thank you. coming up, make it several tuesdays in a row, the bulls are out on wall street. look at that. [ jackie ] it's just so frustrating... ♪ the middle of this special moment and i need to run off to the bathroom. ♪ i'm fed up with always having to put my bladder's needs ahead of my daughter. ♪ so today, i'm finally talking to my doctor about overactive bladder symptoms. [ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling? ask your doctor about prescription toviaz. one toviaz pill a day significantly reduces sudden urges and accidents, for 24 hours. if you have certain stomach problems or glaucoma, or can not empty your bladder, you should not take toviaz. get emergency medical help right away if your face, lips, throat or tongue swells. toviaz can cause blurred vision,
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next minute i'm in the back of an ambulance having a heart attack. i was in shape, fit. i did not see it coming. i take bayer aspirin. [ male announcer ] so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. see your doctor and get checked out. coming up, racial profiling by america's toughest sheriff? a judge says it is so, joe. stay with us. as a trainer, i see a lot of people
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he's america's toughest sheriff. making a national name for himself, chasing after undocumented immigrants. only one problem. the federal judge finds that maricopa county sheriff joe arpaio hasn't been following the law. a scathing 142-page decision outlines systemic racial profiling of latinos and orders the office to stop using
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hispanic heritage in making law enforcement decisions. it is a stinging defeat for the sheriff and one his attorneys say they're going to appeal. joining us now is msnbc contributor joy reid, who's also managing editor of the grios.com. joy, a federal judge confirmed in writing sheriff joe ar pie wra arpaio subjected latinos to arrest, detention and harassment. being this has goine on 30 year, why did it take so long for this decision? >> joe arpaio prided himself on humiliating prisoners and making people he discerns to be legal immigrants basically subhuman and treat them less than human. this has been going on for a long time and actually perversely made him famous rather than infamous for a long time. co you're now seeing a focus on it.
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what happened in arizona, this gentleman, this man, mr. arpaio, had his officers subjecting anyone he thought looked hispanic to an apartheid system. harassing them, making them show documents, in a lot of cases jailing them. it's unbelievable it went on this long. >> don't forget, joy, it's not long ago mrs. mitt romney, john mccain, rick perry and plenty of other republicans were fighting over this man's endorsement. is man who is now exposed as a nasty racial profiler. >> absolutely. he was considered a political asset for the republican party. you have to realize the context in which joe arpaio became a political asset to a lot of republicans is this sort of fervor against immigrants, against illegal immigrants that goes with an assumption, wrong, by a lot on the right that anybody who's hispanic is an illegal immigrant, that most latinos in this country are here illegally which is, of course, wrong. but it all goes together. it's this xenophobic attack on
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immigrants. >> how does the republican party come to terms with an approach to immigration given the role of people like him who have been lauded by this party for decades? the last presidential election had them bowing at this man's feet. >> right. >> a man now condemned by the judge. >> and that, therein lies the problem. i mean, this man was not vilified from within his party as, say, the guy from the heritage foundation was when it was discovered he wrote horrible things in his harvard dissertation. mr. richwine. arpaio speaks for a lot of the base of the gop which says you should treat people who are in this country undocumented as the lowest form of criminal. that anything you do to them is justifiable. and that you should seek them out among anybody who seems to be hispanic. this is something that the republican party has to root out. not from the top down as they've tried to do at the rnc, but from
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the bottom up. i don't know how you do it. 30-plus years of talk radio saying those immigrants, those people are taking away your stuff, here to suck off the teeth of government. >> joy, wouldn't it be helpful today given the judgment on friday if rick perry or mitt romney or any of these individuals came out and said, we made a wrong judgment about this individual? he's clearly been racially profiling and abusing people and the constitution. and we condemn him. >> it would be very helpful. it's highly unlikely. you have guys who want to run in 2016 and don't want to alienate the base of the party. if that can't get through easily, it's hard to imagine a full throated pushing away of joe arpaio. i find it hard to imagine. it would be a pleasant surprise if it did. >> it would, indeed. the grios' joy reid. thank you so smumuch, joy. go to e-trade and find out
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it's time now to clear the air. and do you remember when a number of republicans could not stop quoting the findings of two harvard economists, reinhart and rogarf who argued if government debt exceeded 90% of gdp then that country's economy was likely to collapse? so their answer and response of many republicans to the recession was not stimulus but austerity. slashing government spending as quickly as possible. >> a good body of research done by a couple of economists, carmen reinhart and ken rogaf. >> this study says when your debt reaches 90% of the economy, 90% of the growth domestic product, it pulls down economic growth by 1% to 2%. >> the best evidence we have tells us when you cross the 90% threshold on the gross debt of
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any nation, you are in the danger zone. >> reinhart and rogoff's thesis was taken up by a number of nations and the results have been devastating. countries like britain, spain, italy and ireland have all suffered double, even triple-dip recessions by following reinhart and rogoff's lead. but one economist from the outset was absolutely clear that they were absolutely wrong. and he didn't pull his punches. >> we've seen falling government spending, particularly spending, purchases of goods and services, actually government buying stuff, an unprecedented decline in that. that's the biggest threat to the recovery. if spending had grown in this business cycle the way it did in the last one under bush or under reagan, we would probably have an unemployment rate that was not much above 6% right now. so this washington craziness, and, of course, the threat of the sequester. >> mr. krugman, a nobel laureate, no less, eviscerated
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their thesis. even before it emerged a graduate student at the university of massachusetts had found the data they'd used had failed to include the experience of several allied nations, contained a serious coding error, and that they'd used an odd weighting scheme, all of which had biased their findings. this only confirmed mr. krugman's original view. writing in the latest edition of new york review of books he says the following. "at this point, austerity economics is in a very bad way. its predictions have proved utterly wrong. its founding academic documents haven't just lost their canonized status, they've become the objects of much ridicule. "but now carmen reinhart and ken rogoff are squealing about the way their thesis has been debunked and have written a long self-pitying letter to paul krugman, himself, saying in part, "we admire your past scholarly work which influences
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us to this day. so it has been with deep disappointment that we have experienced your spectacularly uncivil behavior the past few weeks. you have attacked us in very personal terms virtually nonstop in your "new york times" column and blog posts." i will fell you what is spectacularly uncivil. it is spectacularly uncivil to slash the transportation service for a child with cerebral palsy because the government followed reinhart and rogaff and uncivil to cancel a luncheon club for elderly disabled folk because two harvard economists said that the answer to the recession was to slash spending. it is spectacularly uncivil to shut down a mother and baby group designed to support those who are suffering with post
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natal depression. paul krugman was merely speaking up for those silent individuals whose lives have been mercilessly devastated by the advance of an economic theory that we now know is completely bogus. and for that, alone, he deserves the nobel peace prize. thanks for watching. "hardball" is next. beach boys. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. the late chicago mayor richard daley once said good government is good politics. watch new jersey governor chris christie in action, better yet watch his work for new jersey by working relations with president obama. in an era when so many elected officials have forgotten the power of positive politics. christie knows politicians a

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